[*BCM*] behavior

Lee Peters lfpeters at gis.net
Wed Oct 4 21:13:02 EDT 2006 

I was asked by the moderator to be consistent with the subject line.

>force field down, end of discussion<



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Hays" <jjhays2 at gmail.com>
To: "Boston Critical Mass" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Laws - why did you change my subject line?


> Some people don't receive individual emails, but get a daily or weekly 
> digest of all the post, with the subject line that says "<group  name>, 
> Digest, Vol X, Issue Y". When you reply to a digest, the digest title gets 
> put into the subject line. No need to get all persnickety about subject 
> lines. And even if that wasn't the case - why get all pissy about a 
> changed subject line anyway?
>
> - John
>
>
> Lee Peters wrote:
>> I would refer you all to the "two wrongs don't make a right, but three 
>> lefts make a right" law.
>>
>> Or, if it were a child hit by the car, then everyone would go after the 
>> driver.... hmmm double standard? or is it everyone's duty to drive 
>> defensively.  Yea.
>>
>> Or, in a world in which cars don't exist, would there be a need for 
>> one-way streets?  Again, we aren't represented and function at the 
>> margins.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Ledlie" <timledlie at gmail.com>
>> To: <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
>> Cc: <lfpeters at gis.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
>>
>>
>>> Although obviously unfortunate, it was her fault for biking the wrong
>>> way down a one-way street.  At least she wasn't badly hurt and she'll
>>> (hopefully) be able to learn from her mistake.
>>>
>>> Why would the van driver get a ticket for doing nothing wrong
>>> (assuming he came to a complete stop at the stop sign)?  Why should it
>>> be the legal responsibility for one vehicle operator to allow for
>>> illegal actions of another?  It may be a good idea to do so, but it
>>> certainly should not be the law.
>>>
>>> I wish that more cyclists would follow the law.  I think this is the
>>> first step in getting motor vehicles to respect cyclists.  Red lights
>>> make for a good example: if I'm driving a car, waiting at a red light,
>>> and a cyclist goes by me through the red light, why should I cut him
>>> any slack / treat him legally like a vehicle when I see him again
>>> further down the road?  And when motor vehicle drivers see most
>>> cyclists breaking the law, they assume that all cyclists are the same.
>>>
>>> Just imagine how motor vehicle drivers would act differently towards
>>> cyclists if all cyclists were law-abiding.  Am I being too idealistic?
>>>
>>> Of course, there are situations as a cyclist where you put yourself in
>>> danger by following the law, and I believe you should break the law in
>>> these rare situations.  But I think these situations don't happen very
>>> often, much less than many people think.
>>>
>>> -Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/3/06, bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>> <bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org> wrote:
>>>> Send Bostoncriticalmass mailing list submissions to
>>>>         bostoncriticalmass at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Bostoncriticalmass digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>>    1. Laws (Lee Peters)
>>>>    2. Re: Laws (Jim Leonard)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:42:29 -0400
>>>> From: "Lee Peters" <lfpeters at gis.net>
>>>> Subject: [*BCM*] Laws
>>>> To: "Boston Critical Mass" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
>>>> Message-ID: <001301c6e663$472c3c70$0301000a at Unit2>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>> There was a bike accident in front of my house this afternoon.  The 
>>>> ambulance was called and she seems ok.  The EMT actually put her bike 
>>>> in the back of the truck and either brought her home or to the 
>>>> hospital.
>>>>
>>>> How did it happen?
>>>>
>>>> Well, she was going the wrong way on my one-way street.  The driver of 
>>>> a van pulled out in front of her at an intersection without looking the 
>>>> 'wrong' way down the street.  I didn't see if the driver made a full 
>>>> stop for the stop sign.
>>>>
>>>> Granted, it wouldn't happen if she wasn't going the wrong 
>>>> direction----BUT is there a law that says look BOTH ways before 
>>>> proceeding through a stop sign?
>>>>
>>>> The rationalization that flowed from the driver's mouth was 
>>>> astonishing. I don't believe he got any kind of ticket.
>>>>
>>>> L
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:00:54 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> From: Jim Leonard <vleonard at infinet.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Laws
>>>> To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
>>>> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58L0.0610021646350.31154 at shell.core.com>
>>>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Lee Peters wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Well, she was going the wrong way on my one-way street.  The
>>>> driver of > a
>>>> > van pulled out in front of her at an intersection without looking the
>>>> > 'wrong' way down the street.
>>>>
>>>> Going through an intersection the wrong way is one of the most 
>>>> dangerous
>>>> things you can do on a bicycle especially at any speed.
>>>>
>>>> > Granted, it wouldn't happen if she wasn't going the wrong
>>>> > direction----BUT is there a law that says look BOTH ways before
>>>> > proceeding through a stop sign?
>>>>
>>>> Not in those words but I think the following does apply.  It does hurt 
>>>> the
>>>> bicylist's case that she was not legal traffic, but I don't think the
>>>> driver of the van would be able to collect damages either.
>>>>
>>>> >From 89 section 9 of Mass General Laws
>>>> (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/89-9.htm)
>>>>
>>>> Except when directed to proceed by a police officer, every driver of a
>>>> vehicle approaching a stop sign or a flashing red signal indication 
>>>> shall
>>>> stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the
>>>> crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at 
>>>> the
>>>> point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of
>>>> approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. 
>>>> After
>>>> having stopped, the driver shall yield the right of way to any vehicle 
>>>> in
>>>> the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to
>>>> constitute an immediate hazard during the time when such driver is 
>>>> moving
>>>> across or within the intersection or junction of roadways.
>>>>
>>>> --jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
>>>> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
>>>> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
>>>>
>>>> End of Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
>>>> *************************************************
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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