<div dir="ltr">My original post was about the potential harm of a bike versus a car, and calling for enforcement that mirrored that factor. Maybe your point is that that kind of layered enforcement is already in place. But, honestly, I don't see it. You can call it whining if you want. Nevertheless, it's a miscalculation of the city's needs to focus on cycle-traps, without also focusing to a greater degree on other rampant violations. Violations that have the potential to do more harm. Until there's a visible crackdown on other infractions, cyclists will continue "whining." And I think with some fairness, since it's their lives being endangered by the lack of enforcement in other areas.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Anne Wolfe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:goannego@gmail.com">goannego@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">I'm not asking people to do any such thing. I'm asking them to realise that in fact, hundreds and thousands of traffic tickets (parking, speeding, etc) get given out every day, and almost no bike tickets are given out in comparison. The whining when it does happen a) rings hollow due to the sheer disproportionality of bike tickets v car tickets, b) feeds into the whole culture against bikers (not to mention bikers v drivers, which is getting more entrenched as things go on and c) as already seen, encourages the whole "I don't have to obey any law because somehow I know better" of running red lights. And then people wonder why people dislike cyclists. I'm all for ticketing drivers that break the law and I'm all for ticketing cyclists that break the law. I'm lucky enough to have never been in a car accident. I'm unlucky enough to have been run over by two cyclists. One was riding the wrong way on a one way street at high speed (that cracked my ribs), another ran a red light (that gave him road rash. I just limped for a week). Does it stop me cycling? No. Does it stop me driving? No. Does it mean I have zero sympathy on this point? Yup, pretty much. <br>
<br>It has been common knowledge for a long time, and is now advertised (again - it comes up whenever it happens) that in Cambridge, you run a higher chance of getting a bike ticket than elsewhere in the Boston area. Central Square and the 77 Mass Ave are the top places. Well then, duh, basic logic says if you're going to cycle against the lights and the laws, don't do it in these places. Those who have been warned and do it anyway and get caught, whining that the other 50 weeks of the year somehow don't focus enough on cars is just pathetic.<div>
<div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/7/30 Rob Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rsarnold@gmail.com" target="_blank">rsarnold@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">Anne, it's a bike listserv. Do you really expect people to side with sweeping bike enforcement measures without seeing any kind of parallel increase in enforcement against motorized vehicles? I don't think it's bad to ticket cyclists. I've been ticketed, and I've paid my tickets. I'd just like to see cops standing around in Central Square handing out tickets to everybody who double-parks in the bike lane as well.<div>
<div></div><div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Anne Wolfe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:goannego@gmail.com" target="_blank">goannego@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">So how many days and at how many points are road laws being enforced against cyclists, vs against cars? Grab whatever statistics you can, and I'll bet that the percentage is negligible for enforcement against cyclists.<div>
<div></div><div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/7/30 Rob Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rsarnold@gmail.com" target="_blank">rsarnold@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">The point is percentages. Enforcement that matches the severity of the offense. Don't ignore bike infractions. But increase enforcement all around so that the ramping up of traffic enforcement, along with its benefits, is felt much more widely.<div>
<div></div><div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Anne Wolfe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:goannego@gmail.com" target="_blank">goannego@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">And the number of people ticketed for vehicular offenses far exceeds the number of people killed/injured by or more importantly ON bikes. What's your point? That violations of the law should be ignored entirely and forever unless full parity can be guaranteed at all levels? If you want to fund that level of police state you're perfectly free to do so but at this point the "don't ticket me, look at those people over there..." just smacks of getting caught and not wanting to take responsibility;<div>
<div></div><div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/7/30 Rob Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rsarnold@gmail.com" target="_blank">rsarnold@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr"><span>Nevertheless, the number of people killed/injured by cars far exceed the number of people killed/injured by bikes.</span><div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Anne Wolfe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:goannego@gmail.com" target="_blank">goannego@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Cyclists who run red lights are at greater risk of potential harm as when they're struck by oncoming traffic they have nothing to protect them. Unlike, say, being in a car which is struck. Screw property damage, let's talk serious personal injury. And about the fastest way to get stopped by a cop is to run a red light in a car. <br>
<br>Cars that run red lights are considered so serious that in many states and countries, they are automatically photographed and issued with penalty points. No cops even required. This has certainly had the effect of substantially reducing the running of red lights by cars. Now, if only cyclists would learn as well. <br>
<br>People's most common complaints about cyclists? Seems to be the running of red lights. That Newsweek article's common theme? Running red lights (including the guy who picked up his bike and RAN through the red light. The red lights are a big deal. Put your big girl panties on and learn to deal with it.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/7/30 Rob Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rsarnold@gmail.com" target="_blank">rsarnold@gmail.com</a>></span><div><div></div><div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">Speaking of percentages, I wonder what percentage of property damage are responsible by cars versus bikes? Or personal injuries? Or deaths? The enforcement should be proportional to the potential harm. I'm guessing it isn't.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Anne Wolfe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:goannego@gmail.com" target="_blank">goannego@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">Look at it in terms of percentages. What percentage of traffic violations (and/or police time) in Cambridge are given to cars? What percentage are given to bikes? <br><br>If you want to complain about non-enforcement of traffic laws against vehicles, the time to do it is not during grumbling for being caught running a red light. Because of course, while you might think it is safer, traffic and pedestrians coming the other way may well disagree when you hit them. Or they hit you. Etc. <br>
<br>I've seen a lot more cyclists in my day fail to signal a turn than drivers. And I've seen a whole lot of drivers fail to signal. <br><br>As an aside, I just noticed this on Newsweek. Feeding in with the Seattle and NYC issues, non-law abiding bikers are in for considerably more crackdowns everywhere it seems.<br>
<br><a href="http://www.newsweek.com/id/149224" target="_blank">http://www.newsweek.com/id/149224</a><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/7/30 Charvak Karpe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:charvak@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">charvak@alum.mit.edu</a>></span><div>
<div></div><div><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Yes, I've been stopped by the Cambridge bike cops for running the 77<br>
Mass Ave light. They only gave me a warning and told me that they'll<br>
be around town and I should stop the next time I see them so they<br>
don't write me a ticket. It's one more thing to be alert for,<br>
distracting me from dodging cars. I was polite, but I did ask why<br>
they don't do something more useful like ticket people for not using<br>
turn signals. They claimed that they write tickets for that too and<br>
enforce all laws. They thanked me for being green and "helping mother<br>
earth". I thanked them for the warning.<br>
<br>
If I had time, I'd demand statistics of how many tickets the City of<br>
Cambridge has issued for failure to use turn signals and carry that<br>
with me for the next time I see them. Has anyone heard of someone<br>
getting a ticket for turning without signalling?<br>
<br>
It's not their fault that they've been assigned the bicycle<br>
enforcement shift, so the best they can do is hand out a bunch of<br>
warnings. We should be nice to those guys. One might expect the<br>
police to do useful things like track down stolen property or stop and<br>
ask questions when they see a bike lock being cut instead of writing<br>
bike tickets, but at least they're not pushing us off the bikes.<br>
Sarcasm aside, police presence does help keep drivers tamer than they<br>
would be otherwise. And although they vary as much as any group of<br>
people, most of them are pretty nice if you're nice to them and<br>
respectful of their authority.<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
Agreed about the hypocrisy of these bicycle traps. Just this morning, at<br>
that very location, I was right behind a rider who was fined for running<br>
the light ahead of me. With the reputation that Boston motorists have, I<br>
can't help but feel they have much bigger fish to fry.<br>
<br>
However, I have to say that last Friday (in the afternoon, following the<br>
police-supported Bike Friday event that I attended) I was told by a cop to<br>
go if I saw a chance through the busy intersection. It was "the least<br>
they could do" because I was "sparing us all the gas." He was a really<br>
nice guy, and if I'd had the time, I'd have grabbed his badge number and<br>
commended him (leaving out the law breaking part of course) to his<br>
department.<br>
--<br>
James David Morgan<br>
Co-Founder and Designer<br>
The Groundswell Collective<br>
<a href="http://www.groundswellcollective.com/" target="_blank">http://www.groundswellcollective.com/</a><br>
<a href="http://blog.groundswellcollective.com/" target="_blank">http://blog.groundswellcollective.com/</a><br>
<br>
Jon Ramos wrote:<br>
Speaking of the area near the Longfellow Bridge....<br>
There have been an increasing number of bike police traps in<br>
Cambridgelately.? I have noticed that they are spread out along my route<br>
at different locations, but they seem to always be at least one cop the<br>
intersection of Broadway & Main Street in Cambridge (just before the<br>
Longfellow).? I have watched other cyclist get stopped and ticketed a few<br>
times, usually when crossing with the pedestrian walk signal when all<br>
lights are red.<br>
?<br>
Here is a map of the spot:?<br>
(<a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=Broadway+%4042.362770,+-71.084582&daddr=42.361977,-71.082423&hl=en&geocode=12899578198328372370,42.362770,-71.084582%3B6747366231024457007,42.362270,-71.083680&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=17&sll=42.362008,-71.082627&sspn=0.003623,0.006748&ie=UTF8&ll=42.363047,-71.08283&spn=0.014491,0.043302&z=15" target="_blank">http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=Broadway+%4042.362770,+-71.084582&daddr=42.361977,-71.082423&hl=en&geocode=12899578198328372370,42.362770,-71.084582%3B6747366231024457007,42.362270,-71.083680&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=17&sll=42.362008,-71.082627&sspn=0.003623,0.006748&ie=UTF8&ll=42.363047,-71.08283&spn=0.014491,0.043302&z=15</a>)<br>
(In my opinion) I think it is good for the police to stop cyclists for<br>
blasting through a red light, but I personally think it is safer to cross<br>
that particular intersection with the pedestrian signal vs. waiting for<br>
the green and battling for a safe spot with the cars.<br>
?<br>
I also think it is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS that the bike police at that<br>
intersection do NOTHING about all of the shuttles, taxis, large trucks,<br>
and cars that are parked in the bike lane less than 50 yards east from<br>
where the cops are handing out tickets to cyclists.<br>
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"If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head. Please do not taunt Happy Fun Ball."<br>
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