<div dir="ltr">I think you'll find that CM rides aren't about taking back the streets. Or anything else. That's the joy of the leaderless anarchist movement, and one of its biggest strengths and also its most collassal weakness. The fact that for you it is about taking something speaks volumes about you, but should ideally say little about CM. For example, the CM in Hungary is only twice a year, but thousands and thousands of people turn out for peaceful demonstrations. That isn't about taking back the streets, and neither are most CMs. What you get out of it, well, that's rather up to you.<br>
<br>Whether or not you trust the press, it seems that both the pro-bike and pro-car sides on this one seem to both be saying that both sides were wrong. Which is often the case. Although the Stranger isn't exactly a paper that will automatically go the pro-car route. Mind you, I trust the press' bias about as much as I trust yours in this matter, which is to say, little.<br>
<br>Civil disobedience doesn't always work and I never said it does. But when it does, it does so inter alia for the reasons stated. <br><br>And yes, it is difficult to get people not to retaliate. But if they see the benefits, or at least the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, they can retaliate in other ways, such as mobilising other people to come out and have a larger, more peaceful CM. That isn't going to happen here. What's going to happen here is that less peacefully inclined people will attend, more thuggishly inclined people will attend, the police will start paying a lot more attention, and whatever or nothing that CM opts to stand for at that time will become more and more difficult, while the cars will go unmolested. That's a loss, by almost anyone's measure.<br>
<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/7/28 john saylor <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:js0000@gmail.com">js0000@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
hey<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Anne Wolfe <<a href="mailto:goannego@gmail.com">goannego@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> If you want to enlighten people, generally antagonising them isn't the best<br>
> way to go.<br>
<br>
</div>i don't think enlightenment was on anyone's mind. the CM rides are<br>
about *taking* back the streets [among other things].<br>
<br>
i don't have much faith in the press, so i am sure this is being<br>
played as 'cyclist mob'- after all, that will sell more papers than<br>
'insane driver' [besides, car dealers pay more advertising dollars<br>
than bike shops] ...<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> Why did civil disobedience work?<br>
<br>
</div>civil disobediance doesn't always work.<br>
<br>
as you [indirectly] point out- it is in the nature of humans to<br>
retaliate. when a bunch of their fellow cyclists get run over, the<br>
first reaction is to strike back.<br>
<br>
it takes very a special and disciplined [or extremely outgunned]<br>
population to use non-violent tactics. you are asking people to go<br>
against their nature [possible, but very difficult]. gandhi himself<br>
said satyagraha is the most difficult kinda resistance possible.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
\js [ <a href="http://or8.net/%7Ejohns/" target="_blank">http://or8.net/~johns/</a> ]<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Anne M. Wolfe, LL.M.<br>Mobile: ( 07805) 456901<br>"If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head. Please do not taunt Happy Fun Ball."<br>
</div>