[*BCM*] Laws (fixed subject just for Lee Peters)

[Jim Leonard]

Why is this too idealistic?  Why should the police not be writing
citations for cyclists running red lights or riding the wrong way down a
one way street?  Or for pedestrians crossing against the cross walk
signals?  Or for that matter automobiles running red lights and
flagrantly ignoring other signage or people crossing legally in sidewalks?

I dream of this day because only then will people start
bicycling/walking/driving such that a) basic travel can take place without
fearing for myself and my property and b) more people will take
pedestrians and cyclists seriously.

--jiml

On Wed, 4 Oct 2006, Rob Arnold wrote:

> Yes, you are being too idealistic.
>
> On 10/4/06, Tim Ledlie <timledlie at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Although obviously unfortunate, it was her fault for biking the wrong
> > way down a one-way street.  At least she wasn't badly hurt and she'll
> > (hopefully) be able to learn from her mistake.
> >
> > Why would the van driver get a ticket for doing nothing wrong
> > (assuming he came to a complete stop at the stop sign)?  Why should it
> > be the legal responsibility for one vehicle operator to allow for
> > illegal actions of another?  It may be a good idea to do so, but it
> > certainly should not be the law.
> >
> > I wish that more cyclists would follow the law.  I think this is the
> > first step in getting motor vehicles to respect cyclists.  Red lights
> > make for a good example: if I'm driving a car, waiting at a red light,
> > and a cyclist goes by me through the red light, why should I cut him
> > any slack / treat him legally like a vehicle when I see him again
> > further down the road?  And when motor vehicle drivers see most
> > cyclists breaking the law, they assume that all cyclists are the same.
> >
> > Just imagine how motor vehicle drivers would act differently towards
> > cyclists if all cyclists were law-abiding.  Am I being too idealistic?
> >
> > Of course, there are situations as a cyclist where you put yourself in
> > danger by following the law, and I believe you should break the law in
> > these rare situations.  But I think these situations don't happen very
> > often, much less than many people think.
> >
> > -Tim
> >
> >
> > On 10/3/06, bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > <bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org> wrote:
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> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > >    1. Laws (Lee Peters)
> > >    2. Re: Laws (Jim Leonard)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:42:29 -0400
> > > From: "Lee Peters" <lfpeters at gis.net>
> > > Subject: [*BCM*] Laws
> > > To: "Boston Critical Mass" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> > > Message-ID: <001301c6e663$472c3c70$0301000a at Unit2>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > There was a bike accident in front of my house this afternoon.  The
> > ambulance was called and she seems ok.  The EMT actually put her bike in the
> > back of the truck and either brought her home or to the hospital.
> > >
> > > How did it happen?
> > >
> > > Well, she was going the wrong way on my one-way street.  The driver of a
> > van pulled out in front of her at an intersection without looking the
> > 'wrong' way down the street.  I didn't see if the driver made a full stop
> > for the stop sign.
> > >
> > > Granted, it wouldn't happen if she wasn't going the wrong
> > direction----BUT is there a law that says look BOTH ways before proceeding
> > through a stop sign?
> > >
> > > The rationalization that flowed from the driver's mouth was
> > astonishing.  I don't believe he got any kind of ticket.
> > >
> > > L
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL:
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> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:00:54 -0400 (EDT)
> > > From: Jim Leonard <vleonard at infinet.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Laws
> > > To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> > > Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58L0.0610021646350.31154 at shell.core.com>
> > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Lee Peters wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, she was going the wrong way on my one-way street.  The driver of
> > a
> > > > van pulled out in front of her at an intersection without looking the
> > > > 'wrong' way down the street.
> > >
> > > Going through an intersection the wrong way is one of the most dangerous
> > > things you can do on a bicycle especially at any speed.
> > >
> > > > Granted, it wouldn't happen if she wasn't going the wrong
> > > > direction----BUT is there a law that says look BOTH ways before
> > > > proceeding through a stop sign?
> > >
> > > Not in those words but I think the following does apply.  It does hurt
> > the
> > > bicylist's case that she was not legal traffic, but I don't think the
> > > driver of the van would be able to collect damages either.
> > >
> > > >From 89 section 9 of Mass General Laws
> > > (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/89-9.htm)
> > >
> > > Except when directed to proceed by a police officer, every driver of a
> > > vehicle approaching a stop sign or a flashing red signal indication
> > shall
> > > stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the
> > > crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at the
> > > point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of
> > > approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it.
> > After
> > > having stopped, the driver shall yield the right of way to any vehicle
> > in
> > > the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to
> > > constitute an immediate hazard during the time when such driver is
> > moving
> > > across or within the intersection or junction of roadways.
> > >
> > > --jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
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